Episode 9

Nathan Holbert:

Welcome to Pop and Play, the podcast all about play in its many silly, serious, and powerful forms. I'm Nathan Holbert.

 

Haeny Yoon:

And I'm Haeny Yoon. In this season, we're talking about young people's media; how to make it, why it matters, what participation looks like, and its challenges and limitations.

 

Nathan Holbert:

And today we're doing something a little different, actually.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Yeah. So we decided to take our hand at making media by creating a story of our own.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Yeah. And because we knew we wouldn't be able to do this on our own, we took advantage of our guests. I mean, we asked nicely.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Very nicely.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Our guests to provide us a few different elements for this story that we wanted to create, right? So can you give us an example of what we did here.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Yeah. So for the listeners, if you can imagine, imagine a cross between writing stories and Mad Libs. And so what we did is we asked each of our guests to give us a little element or piece of the story. So for example, we asked Aaron to give us the beginning of a story, and he sent us in the mail via snail mail, a very enticing little chapter and a beginning of a story that we had to kind of decode and had a hard time doing.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Right. We got characters from some of our guests this season. So Logan, Paola, and Jesus shared with us three really excellent and exciting characters, and they even gave us the voices, which we failed to actually replicate perfectly.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Yeah, I had a very hard time reenacting those voices.

 

Nathan Holbert:

But we took all of these elements and together Haeny and I sat down and we wrote. We tried to take those elements, we tried to put them together into some sort of a story that could fit the particular vibes that our guests had suggested, the characters, the themes, some of the locations and places. And what we have done is we've created this story for you, we've pieced it together. You're going to hear some little clips from our guests talking about and offering those elements of our story. And we've tried to weave that together into a new piece of media for you.

 

Haeny Yoon:

So what we have for you is a pulpy sci-fi by the name of Stairway to Riverworld written by Nathan and Haeny in collaboration with all of our guests this season. Our narrator for this story is the illustrious, incomparable Hannah Holbert.

 

Nathan Holbert:

And performed as well by...

 

Haeny Yoon:

Yours truly.

 

Nathan Holbert:

So strap in, here we go. Stairway to Riverworld.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Aaron Trammell gave us the beginning of a story.

 

Aaron Trammell:

I don't know, I feel like I need to grant you the beginning of a story somehow.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Yeah, that's great.

 

Aaron Trammell:

I'm going to find a book and I'm going to rip a page out of it so that you'll have the beginning of a story.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Okay.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Oh, wow.

 

Aaron Trammell:

It will be the beginning of the book.

 

Nathan Holbert:

It will be the beginning.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Okay.

 

Aaron Trammell:

But it will be the beginning of a story.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Okay.

 

Aaron Trammell:

And so I will have given you the beginning of a story.

 

Hannah Holbert:

Go traveler, go anywhere. The universe is a big place. Perhaps the biggest. No matter, wherever you land, you'll hear of Simon Wagstaff, The Space Wanderer. Simon is an Earth man. You must have heard of him. He travels the galaxy with his companions and his electric banjo fighting injustice. He's a nice enough fellow, though he is a bit cranky. Of course, you would be cranky too if you were as old as Simon. Oh, right, I forgot to tell you Simon is immortal. Well, he was immortal until he died. That's when he went to Riverworld. I guess I should explain a bit more how Simon died. Well, that story is quite simple. Dear reader, blame it on the cats.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Paolo Poucel introduced us to our first character.

 

Paola Poucel:

Evil little cat.

 

Haeny Yoon:

You writing this down? Evil little cat.

 

Paola Poucel:

Evil little cat. She comes from space from this planet where there are other old cats, but she was the smallest one. So she came to Earth to conquer Earth. She's a cat, a small cat.

 

Nathan Holbert:

I'll just speak like this. And she's so happy. And because I'm going to conquer Earth.

 

Hannah Holbert:

And not just any cat. The cat in question goes by the name Queen Catastrophe, an evil little cat from the void. She is widely known throughout the space-time continuum and equally feared by as many as she is known. Queen Catastrophe is a fierce conqueror, though she is the smallest of her species. And she has set her sights on a small blue planet a few hops away from the sun, a place called Earth. Really an easy-peasy target for a chaos-creating Calico.

The specifics of Earth's destruction is another story. Suffice it to say, Earth was destroyed. Queen Catastrophe had a major hand in it, and it wasn't all that hard. It's almost like earthlings were already kind of doing the deed themselves. All they needed was a slight nudge, a little breeze really. And Queen Catastrophe was more than happy to provide.

But for this story, I suppose I should say a bit about Riverworld, Simon's new home after the destruction of Earth.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Ioana Literat gave us the vibe and Henry Jenkins the setting.

 

Ioana Literat:

I'll start with a vibe. Vibe check.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Okay.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Vibe check. Vibe check.

 

Haeny Yoon:

I like it.

 

Ioana Literat:

I would like it to not be dystopian.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Okay.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Okay.

 

Ioana Literat:

In this particular-

 

Haeny Yoon:

That's-

 

Ioana Literat:

... political moment.

 

Haeny Yoon:

... noted. Yes.

 

Ioana Literat:

So a happy place.

 

Haeny Yoon:

A happy place. With balloons?

 

Ioana Literat:

With balloons.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Balloons, perhaps. Okay, a ballooned happy place.

 

Henry Jenkins:

So, well, one thing that comes to mind is I've always loved Jose Philip Farmer's Riverworld series of books. And the Riverworld is a place that everyone goes across cultures, across time after they die. So it's an afterlife that has everyone who's ever lived on Earth.

 

Hannah Holbert:

Riverworld is a special place. It's an afterlife of sorts, but not the kind your choose-your-own religious leader told you about. No, this place has all the people, all of them for all time. It's pretty great actually. And Simon was happy just to have a bit of a rest, a place to pull out the old banjo and pluck a few notes. Probably Stairway to Heaven, though as we have noted, this was not heaven. But just as Simon got to the bridge, a bespectacled older gentleman stopped him.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Jesus Alarcon adds to our cast of characters.

 

Jesus Alarcon:

Mine is also a bad guy. I'm going to call him Dr. Doctorate, just for sake.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Dr. Doctorate.

 

Jesus Alarcon:

Yes, it's a mixture of Dr. Doom, and you remember Brain from Pinky and the Brain?

 

Nathan Holbert:

Yeah.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Yeah.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Yeah.

 

Jesus Alarcon:

Okay. And the point is that-

 

Haeny Yoon:

Who could forget that big brain?

 

Jesus Alarcon:

... he just wants to be the only one who knows. He wants to make everyone else stupid. He wants everyone else to unlearn everything. And on the way to showing what he wants people to unlearn, he ends up teaching even more. So he's his own worst enemy because he only wants to be the only one who knows.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Stop. Shut it down. You must unlearn the silly tune and your finger-plucking ways that bring it about. I am the only one who knows.

 

Haeny Yoon:

"And exactly who are you?"

 

Hannah Holbert:

Said Simon.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Dr. Doctorate, you stupid, stupid banjo amateur. I am the only one who knows.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Oh, okay. Cool then. Okay, I'll just stick with you then.

 

Nathan Holbert:

What now? You'll stick with me then. Ugh, if you must.

 

Haeny Yoon:

So where are we going then?

 

Nathan Holbert:

Well, to be honest, I didn't know you were going to follow me, so I'm a bit lost here.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Well, what did you think I was going to do when you said you're the only one who knows? Duh.

 

Hannah Holbert:

Meanwhile, Queen Catastrophe giggles at her success at destroying Earth. She is shocked it was so easy.

 

Nathan Holbert:

I'm shocked it was so easy. Who knew earthlings would so quickly destroy their own planet? It's really kind of sad when you think about it, but we won't think about it because that's very depressing. And we're celebrating our victory, right, Shroomy?

 

Haeny Yoon:

Right, Queen Catastrophe.

Logan invents for our story a loveable robot complete with a voice.

 

Logan:

Shroomy.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Shroomy.

 

Logan:

It's a mushroom-themed robot.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Wow, that's good.

 

Logan:

Completely lovable, but also completely gullible. Yet when bad guys try to trick him, he's so gullible that the bad guys end up tricking themselves. For example, bad guy says, "Don't destroy the whole thing." He destroys it. Then he rebuilds it into something so much better.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Oh, nice.

 

Logan:

And she speaks like this. Hello, everyone. I have come to help you.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Shroomy.

 

Logan:

[inaudible 00:10:20]

 

Nathan Holbert:

Now, were should we conquer next? I know, Riverworld, the final home of all living beings. We shall conquer Riverworld and conquer life itself. Hairball.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Conquer Riverworld. I don't know. It's so sad. I don't like destroying things.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Destroy? I didn't say destroy. I said conquer. Conquer. And obviously make things better. You'll see Shroomy. Now, the secret of Riverworld is...

Erika Halverson brings us the most important ingredient to our story.

 

Erica Halverson:

First thing that came to my mind was The Rock and John Cena, because kids will love to write a story about The Rock and John Cena.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Really?

 

Erica Halverson:

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. If they can be characters in your story.

 

Haeny Yoon:

I mean, both are delightful.

 

Erica Halverson:

Right?

 

Nathan Holbert:

Absolutely.

 

Erica Halverson:

And-

 

Haeny Yoon:

Surprisingly.

 

Erica Halverson:

... and they will love The Rock and/or John Cena to have either a partner or a pet that is some version of a unicorn, alicorn.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Some horned mystical creature.

 

Erica Halverson:

Some magical flying creature.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Got it.

 

Erica Halverson:

Unicorns very popular.

 

Hannah Holbert:

Back on Riverworld. As our unlikely heroes stroll through the Riverworld, they notice two hulking figures zipping by in the night sky. At first Simon and Dr. Doctorate see only two majestic unicorns with shiny white fur and glorious rainbow-swirled horns atop their heads. Simon stares in awe at the two mythical creatures flying around hyperspace.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Do you see that there are two figures riding those unicorns?

 

Hannah Holbert:

The unicorns were so grand that Simon hadn't even noticed the two seemingly tiny figures riding atop the majestic creatures. Dr. Doctorate calmly explained.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Those are two giants from the Earth. Well regarded and respected by all humans. Their names, John Cena and The Rock. Everyone knows them and admires their prowess and power all throughout what used to be Earth.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Duh. Wow. Yeah, I know them too. They were icons. They brought about death and destruction in the WWE, but peace and prosperity to the world. So no wonder they're in this afterlife.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Damn it. I did it again. I shared my knowledge accidentally, but I'm the only one who knows. Well, maybe you know this one thing too, but I'm the only one who knows other things.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Okay, yeah. You think what you want. You do you, boo.

While it didn't come up in our episode on Teletubbies, Andy Davenport suggested our story should include an object that people love to talk about.

 

Andy Davenport:

An object? Well. Objects. Yeah. I just realized we had a whole talk about objects without talking about Tinky-Winky's purse, which is like...

 

Nathan Holbert:

Oh my God.

 

Andy Davenport:

... an absolute miracle. Absolute miracle. It's the first time I've ever talked about Teletubbies without that coming up. So yeah, let's say Tinky-Winky's purse.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Yeah, I love that. I love that.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Oh, that's so perfect.

 

Haeny Yoon:

I am so glad that this conversation came to this.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Amazing. Amazing.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Yeah.

 

Hannah Holbert:

Yikes! At that exact moment, while gazing up at the stars, Dr. Doctorate and Simon tripped over something underneath their feet. The two looked down to see a small object jutting out of the grass. It was red, it had a gold clasp and a short handle. It looked like a purse, but not just any purse.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Is that Tinky-Winky's purse?

 

Nathan Holbert:

If you know, you know. And I am the one who knows. Open it.

 

Hannah Holbert:

It was in fact Tinky-Winky's purse and deep inside underneath the telly toast, telly custard and La-La's ball was a medium-sized needle, a medium-sized needle with the same rainbow swirl, the same rainbow swirl of John Cena and The Rock's unicorn's horns. Simon exclaimed...

 

Haeny Yoon:

"Oh my gosh, it's so beautiful."

 

Hannah Holbert:

And then Dr. Doctorate began a story regarding the mythology and great history of the medium-sized needle and the philosophy of unicorns. It was a long story, and anyone else would've fallen asleep immediately. But Simon was mesmerized by Dr. Doctorate's boring story and this engagement at all excited Dr. Doctorate as is the case for most professors. And so he continued talking, explaining, and teaching. Professors love a good audience who will let them drone on in detail about their convoluted stories and ideas.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Well, crap. I did it again. Now you know. But still I am the only one who knows other things.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Okay, man. Yeah, I believe you.

 

Hannah Holbert:

In the distance, Simon notices a small robot frolicking through the sunflowers and daisies.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Hey. Oh my gosh, it's a robot. Neat.

 

Hannah Holbert:

The robot in the distance was Shroomy. As they watch, Shroomy picks up a particularly beautiful and large pink carnation and pops it.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Wait, wait a minute. Is everything balloons?

 

Hannah Holbert:

Simon and Dr. Doctorate stop and look down. They look really, really closely. And suddenly it becomes obvious. Everything on Riverworld is made of balloons. The grass they had been walking in, the animals that had passed them by, the rocks, even Tinky-Winky's purse. Everything was balloons.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Oh my, it looks as if that tiny robot is popping balloons. If they were to pop too many balloons, they would tear the fragile fabric of Riverworld. That would be catastrophic.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Catastrophic. Where do I know that name?

 

Nathan Holbert:

You know nothing. I am the one who knows things.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Oh, yeah, yeah. Right. Sorry, my bad.

 

Hannah Holbert:

As they get closer, Shroomy notices them, stops, and quickly pops one more medium-sized green balloon panda bear climbing a particularly large balloon-shaped tree.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Hey. Hello. Don't mind me, I'm just doing some of my conquering. But do not worry. I will not destroy anything.

 

Hannah Holbert:

Simon looks down at his hand, the medium-sized needle gleaming in the orange light of the two Riverworld suns. He smiles. Pop.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Why did you do that? You popped that large balloon-shaped tree. Don't do that. You could destroy this very planet.

 

Hannah Holbert:

Pop. Shroomy has poked a yellow balloon dog leaping through the balloon grass. Pop. Grinning, Simon has stuck his needle in the balloon-shaped balloon floating on the morning breeze.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Oh my gosh, this is so fun.

 

Hannah Holbert:

Pop goes the blue balloon giraffe. Pop goes the red balloon banana. Pop goes the white balloon weasel. They all look at Dr. Doctorate.

 

Nathan Holbert:

What? It looked like fun.

 

Hannah Holbert:

It was fun. Pop. And on and on it went. Each of them popping balloons, smiling, laughing, and popping.

 

Nathan Holbert:

I didn't know the afterlife was so fun.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Oh my God. Yeah. It's pretty cool.

 

Hannah Holbert:

At that moment, a loud crack could be heard in the horizon. There, floating in the sky was a small spacecraft, and standing on top of the spacecraft on its tiny legs was Queen Catastrophe.

 

Nathan Holbert:

What's popping?

 

Hannah Holbert:

They all look at each other. Then they look at the camera and wink. Suddenly the world explodes. Riverworld was gone.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Every good story needs an ending. Emily Reardon and Michael Preston provide the coziest location for our story's conclusion.

 

Michael Preston:

What's your favorite place on Sesame Street?

 

Emily Reardon:

Maybe Big Bird's nest is like a cozy spot.

 

Michael Preston:

It's very cozy. I like that a lot.

 

Haeny Yoon:

With the blanket and just like...

 

Emily Reardon:

Yeah.

 

Michael Preston:

That's cool.

 

Emily Reardon:

Not everyone lives in a nest, so it kind of a unique home.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Is this nest on a tree, or is it-

 

Emily Reardon:

No.

 

Haeny Yoon:

... on the street?

 

Emily Reardon:

It's a major nest kind of behind almost like a Western swinging door. What would you call that?

 

Nathan Holbert:

Oh, yeah. A saloon door.

 

Hannah Holbert:

Saloon doors.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Hannah Holbert:

But not all was lost. What remained was a nice cozy nest propped in the nook of a large tree behind an old wooden saloon door. Inside the door sat our friends, Simon, Dr. Doctorate, Shroomy, Queen Catastrophe, John Cena, and The Rock. Simon sat on a fluffy down pillow in a cozy nest, electric banjo on his knee. And if you stop and listen carefully, you could hear the faint plucking of Stairway to Heaven. Bet you can't wait to get there. And they lived after.

 

Haeny Yoon:

I have to say Nathan, in the words of my niece, who is now nine, when she was two, and making up stories, the end. That was a good story.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Every story needs a the end.

 

Haeny Yoon:

The end. Yes. Well, we should say it first before we start off on our little journey here. We have to thank the illustrious Hannah Holbert for being the most amazing narrator there ever was.

 

Nathan Holbert:

There ever was. She lent her dulcet tones to our amateurish voice acting, and it really elevated the whole thing.

 

Haeny Yoon:

It did.

 

Nathan Holbert:

So thank you, Hannah.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Yes. And it kind of goes to show that narration is really important to telling a story, isn't it?

 

Nathan Holbert:

Yeah. We kind of put it all on our shoulders there at the beginning.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Change the narrator, change the whole story.

 

Nathan Holbert:

So throughout the season, we invited each of our guests, as you now know, to give us a little piece of this story. And then we spent some time together trying to craft something that could make not sense, because our story doesn't really make sense, but could become a bit of a narration about this wacky world with all these wacky characters. And it was hard to do.

 

Haeny Yoon:

It was.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Right?

 

Haeny Yoon:

Yes. It was pretty hard to do. I feel like in the spirit of making media and making stories for children, we thought it would be such a great idea to make stories ourselves and see what the experience was like. And I think we learned that even making a 15- minute story is very, very, very difficult.

 

Nathan Holbert:

And look, we knew that to be true. We didn't expect it to be easy. But yeah, trying to sort of pull these pieces together to keep it moving and to say something interesting also. We wanted to try to have our story have a bit of a interesting theme. It was a real challenge. But it was fun to do. And it was fun to sort of try to stretch those muscles and see what they're like. And I have lots of residual pain from the effort.

 

Haeny Yoon:

From all your accents.

 

Nathan Holbert:

From all my accents, yeah. Pain mostly in the throat.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Yeah. Well, what would you say is your big takeaway? What did you learn from creating this story? I can give you a little example.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Yeah.

 

Haeny Yoon:

I feel like the course of the season we've learned from different people like Erica, Lee, Jamie, Andy, Michael, Emily that storytelling is really a collaborative process between adults and kids. And I think sometimes we think about stories for children only should be made by children. But we realize that there is some kind of synergy and some kind of connection that can be made when adults and children kind of come together and how some of the best stories are collaborative. And I think about our guests over time, how they offered a really disparate piece of the puzzle that we were trying to create. But that collaboration kind of led us here to this wild, goofy story that included John Cena and The Rock, but melded-

 

Nathan Holbert:

Naturally.

 

Haeny Yoon:

... together in such a beautiful way. So I think about the takeaway from the Story Pirates episode about how part of telling stories is the collaboration and the work that people bring into it and maybe changes and shifts the stories, but it could do so in really delightful ways.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Yeah. And it would be fun to have a kid or some kids hear this and be like, "Okay, here's really what you should have done." Get some feedback and iterate on it. Yeah, I think it'd be fun to do that sometime.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Yeah, that's the glory of revision.

 

Nathan Holbert:

And thank you very much for joining us this season. We've had a great, great time talking to, man, just an incredible array of brilliant creators and thinkers and artists. I really feel like I learned a ton this season. I feel like I got so excited at every episode, both the recording of them, and then also the opportunity to release these episodes to you all. So thank you for joining us on this journey. We're excited about what we've turned out and we're excited about what's going to happen next.

 

Haeny Yoon:

And don't forget to join us for season six.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Season six. Keep your eyes and ears and your feeds open. We'll be back.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Pop and Play is produced by Haeny Yoon, Nathan Holbert, Lalitha Vasudevan, Billy Collins, and Joe Rinaferri at Teachers College, Columbia University with the Digital Futures Institute.

 

Nathan Holbert:

Audio recordings for this episode by Abu Abdelbagi.

 

Haeny Yoon:

This episode was edited by Billy Collins and Abu Abdelbagi.

 

Nathan Holbert:

For a transcript and to learn more, visit tc.edu/popandplay. Our music is selections from Leafeaters by Poddington Bear, used here under a creative commons attribution non-commercial license. Blake Danzig and Meyer Clark provided our social media and outreach support. Follow @popandplaypod on Instagram. Thank you to Abu Abdelbagi for support with our website and additional materials.

 

Haeny Yoon:

Do you teach about play and pop culture? Check out our topics collection organized for the classroom. And of course, don't forget to share Pop and Play with a friend or colleague.

 

Nathan Holbert:

And thanks for listening.